87. John S. Hougland (William H. Herndon Interview).

Septr 17th 1865

Doct Hougland — Rockport — aged about 40 ys — says he heard Col Jones Say over & over again that Mr Lincoln laid the foundation of his Character in Spencer Co Indiana — That Lincoln read Every book he could lay his hands on — Mastered it

Lincoln clerked for Jones — worked at packing pork — selling good — chopping wood &c — Thinks Jones took papers at a very Early day — say as Early as 1826 and on to 1830 — and down to his death —

About this News Paper business there is much dispute, but think it true — Old Mrs. Lincoln says it is so — so does old Man Wood — so does Grigsby & others — Lincolns Speeches here in 1832 Convince me that he was thoroughly posted in Politics — He left Indiana in 1830 — and during these 2 ys he was down the River — in the Black Hawk war & clerking and Could not have under these

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Circumstances have read & learned so much &c. Dennis Hanks says the way they learned was to go to speech making gatherings &c. &c. and not by reading —

Library of Congress: Herndon-Weik Collection. Manuscript Division. Library of Congress. Washington, D.C. 2360, Herndon-Weik Collection. Manuscript Division. Library of Congress. Washington, D.C. 2367; Huntington Library: LN2408, 1:97

nts

Notes.

1. That is, "here in Illinois."

2. The last paragraph of the interview and WHH's note both appear on a separate sheet. This sheet was treated by Springer as the end of the Dougherty interview, but the editors believe it more likely belongs to the Hougland interview.